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5:26 pm
December 14, 2008
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Frenze
| | Frenze | |
| New Member | posts 9 | |
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I really love this rating system, Mud connect's only allows you to vote yet, and such, Where as this one allows you to let the world know when people do suck the big one :) not you of course Zeno, i'll always have a place in my heart for a shard or two :P
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YAYAYAYAYA THATS A ME, A MARIO!…..need…more….mushrooms…….
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7:16 pm
December 19, 2008
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zivilyn
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Yeah, it might be way nicer if you could only vote one time per day. Period. It seems like people are doing the usual drive-by negative voting. I guess that goes with voting though, the lame kiddy slam voting that follows. It was rampant on Kyndigs, although the game admin and sockets showing of votes helped so that they could find the cheaters.
Anyway, yeah.
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  Zivilyn/Skol/Dave
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7:54 pm
December 19, 2008
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Orrin
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The main reason I switched to daily ratings was to increase traffic to the site so I can get some revenue from advertising which I can then in turn spend on marketing the site to new users. It was also requested by several users and game admins.
Unfortunately there will always be those who rate every game except their own favourite down, but no voting or ratings system is perfect. I hope that by presenting the games in different ways besides the top rated list it will mitigate the effects of organised negative rating.
I would see it as gaming the system rather than actual cheating, and while I hope that users will be more responsible and either rate games fairly or just stick to voting for their own favourite, I am not going to ban or censure users who rate games down.
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8:07 pm
December 20, 2008
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zivilyn
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| Member | posts 15 | |
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You know what might be nice, and completely circumvent any 'voting games'? Maybe simply vote by category, or just 'votes' without a rating. That way no one is blasting down any other games, simply putting their peg by the game they like.
IE:
Top Themes:
Lands of M'dhavian (18 votes Fantasy)
Ancient Anguish (6 votes Fantasy)
Adventures Unlimited (23 votes Fantasy)
Neuromancer MUD (34 votes Sci-Fi)
Ansalon MUD (15 votes Dragonlance)
Shadows of Isildur (14 votes Tolkien)
Vampire Wars Classic (18 votes Vampire)
That kind of thing, with the usual catagories. Then the display just looks at which catagory it has the most votes in, that's it's main one etc. It'd keep the traffic up, but also make the voting more accurate rather than a game of snipe your neighbor.
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Zivilyn/Skol/Dave
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12:27 am
December 21, 2008
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Orrin
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I don't think that rating within a particular category would work, given that there aren't any distinct categories and that the tags are user defined. I could possibly switch it to just voting a postive count against a single game rather than a 1 to 5 rating, however there are going to be some people who prefer being able to rate games within a range.
Looking at the ratings history it's not all 1 and 5 star votes – quite a lot of people are rating either 2, 3 or 4 stars so it is being used effectively. The top rated list is always going to be a comprimise – I hope that it's useful enough for those games who can organise their players to vote regularly, yet not so dominant that games who can't compete feel that they aren't represented at all. The most popular ranking is an attempt to address this – every 1 star rating contributes to pushing a game up the most popular list.
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11:04 am
January 10, 2009
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Gotrek
| | Australia | |
| Member | posts 50 | |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't MM have the option to vote by theme? Not exactly as presented but something similar?
@Orrin: When did you switch to daily ratings? Looks like it might have been not long after I went on holidays.
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11:32 am
January 10, 2009
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Orrin
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@Orrin: When did you switch to daily ratings? Looks like it might have been not long after I went on holidays.
It was about a month ago now.
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2:26 pm
January 10, 2009
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Gotrek
| | Australia | |
| Member | posts 50 | |
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Mm, yes so it would seem. (It dawned on me when I found the time to sift through some of the 'older' threads.) 
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8:11 pm
May 24, 2009
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KaVir
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| Member | posts 25 | |
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zivilyn said:
It was rampant on Kyndigs, although the game admin and sockets showing of votes helped so that they could find the cheaters.
It was also defined as 'cheating' there, while here it seems to be an acceptable metagame, and I'm only surprised that no mud has yet specifically asked all of its players to vote down every other mud each day.
I wouldn't mind so much if I could at least see which mud I needed to return the favour to – but as it is I'm forced to guess based on which rival mud owners I know dislike me enough to vote me down daily.
It would be nice to see some sort of cross-referenced voting pattern for each mud, perhaps categorised by star rating, so that you could see "3 people who gave this mud 1 star also gave mud X an average rating of 1, mud Y an average rating of 1.5 and mud Z an average rating of 5". Then the mud which gives out 1 star ratings to all of their competitors would suddenly find each competitor giving them 1 star back, knocking them off the list.
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3:22 pm
May 25, 2009
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Gotrek
| | Australia | |
| Member | posts 50 | |
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My guess is it would have to require users to specify a MUD from the current list here in their profile or something.
The positive of people playing snipe the neighbour is you get pushed up higher in the most votes section. I don't see the need to downvote people for no other reason than they are a competitior but then again, I'm a reasonably honest person, not as common a trait amongst the general populace than one would hope.
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9:54 pm
May 28, 2009
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Corvidae
| | Simpsonvile, South Carolina | |
| New Member | posts 6 | |
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You mean there are honest voters? I can think of several people who find every single way they can to vote. Heck, I could do it myself if I wanted to. Vote from the house, goto the local library, and then all the places that allow you to hook up, like Kinko's, local McDonalds and the like. That works if the voting is based upon ISP and User Name. Create three, or more, user names and do the above.
Me, I vote every on every place that will let me vote.
I think that people who have to cheat to vote, and snipe others are just….childish. Especially when most of us should be adult enough not to do such an act.
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"Just before they went into warp, I beamed the whole kit and kaboodle into their engine room, where they'll be no tribble at all." — Scotty, explaining how he got rid of the tribbles (The Trouble With Tribbles)
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3:40 am
May 30, 2009
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Fire
| | Austin, Texas | |
| Member | posts 53 | |
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Once again, I would like to push my "Critic" idea, instead of standard 1-5 or 1-10 anonymous voting. This would allow you to see who voted for the game and by how much. You could then drill down that voter's voting history and see optional comments they made to explain their vote. A simple "thumbs up, thumbs down" system would really benefit newer players, though category rankings would make more sense in that area.
In this way, the prospective players would be able to detect and ignore snipers who are trying to swamp other games in favor of their own. After a few months, it would even be possible to have a "Critic Rank" system similar to Google PageRank, wherein the quality of the voter's ratings are considered by the low-to-high vote ratio.
As far as the category rankings go, it could be as simple as: "Roleplay Support", "Leveling Ease", "Quality Areas" and "Player Support". That might give you some idea of what I mean. In this way, you would have a better overall picture of the game rank. It might be a better idea to let the game administrators create or select the categories they want for their game, allowing for unique games to be ranked accordingly.
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 Genius without education is like silver in the mine – Benjamin Franklin
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9:35 am
June 2, 2009
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Gotrek
| | Australia | |
| Member | posts 50 | |
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Now that I have actually read your post while not half asleep Fire, I actually like your idea. It would provide a good insight into the quality of a MUD (sniping non counted). Have a list of categories that Admins can select (say 5 as an example) from that people can give the thumbs up or down to.
Example
Blah MUD
<two paragraphs of tex>
Leveling System: Thumbs Up|Thumbs Down
Roleplay System: Thumbs Up|Thumbs Down
World Quality: Thumbs Up|Thumbs Down
Clans: Thumbs Up|Thumbs Down
Player Support: Thumbs Up|Thumbs Down
Assume that's what you're meaning to an extent Fire.
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6:34 pm
June 2, 2009
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Emma
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For a while the systematic downvoting actually had stopped, but since a new mud recently got to the upper part of the list, it seems to have started again, full scale.
In the last week or so the game I play has been downvoted systematically, once a day, apparently for no other reason than this new game wanting to stay on top of the rated list. I am not sure if this has happened to other Muds in upper part of the list, but with my game it's a definite pattern.
I've grown tired of it, so I have now started to return the favour, and will continue to do so, until the other party stops. I won't mention any names, but it should be obvious to most which mud I am referring to.
I suggest that if any of you guys have been downvoted by this same game, you start doing the same back too.
Perhaps every new mud on the list needs to be taught voting decorum the hard way, before they learn to act in a mature way.
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4:56 pm
June 4, 2009
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KaVir
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| Member | posts 25 | |
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I finally had enough up of my daily negative vote, but with no way to directly view the voting history I realised my only option was to monitor the votes myself. So I opened two browsers and refreshed one of them every few minutes (refreshing the other to catch up when only positive votes were added). I also pumped three unvoted muds to the top of the list as bait.
This afternoon I finally got a bite, with a flurry of votes at around 15:25 GMT. This was what happened to the Top Rated Games (listed in order of pre-voting-spree rating):
Dark Isles (5 out of 5) -> Lowered to 3 out of 5.
Dragonball Journey to Power (5 out of 5) -> Lowered to 3 out of 5.
d20MUD: Forgotten Realms (5 out of 5) -> Lowered to 3 out of 5.
Lands of M’dhavian (4.43 out of 5) -> Lowered to 4 out of 5.
God Wars II (4.43 out of 5) -> Lowered to 4 out of 5.
4Dimensions (4.39 out of 5) -> Raised to 4.4 out of 5.
The Builder Academy (4.33 out of 5) -> Remained the same.
Threshold RPG (4.28 out of 5) -> Remained the same.
The 7th Plane (4.2 out of 5) -> Remained the same.
6 Dragons (4.17 out of 5) -> Remained the same.
Looks like I was wrong about which mud was giving me negative votes. Worse still, I've been giving frequent 5 rating votes to the very mud that keeps trying to knock me off the list – I wish I could take those back now. But you live and learn.
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7:51 pm
June 4, 2009
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Fire
| | Austin, Texas | |
| Member | posts 53 | |
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Once again; my system would allow you to easily detect the user(s) who are deliberately down or up voting specific games since you would be able to see the users who have voted for that particular game and what scores they gave it. Any number of algorithms could then be used to determine top voted or top ranking games, voter with most ups, voter with most downs, etc.
The only problem with the one I've envisioned is that it runs into the same particular troubles that ebay ran into with their sellers voting on buyers: Game creators/promoters would be able to detect and confront players who consistently down vote their game, regardless of if the vote was acurate or not.
Just as this thread is threatening to erupt in a battle of accusations and denials, this could create a nightmare for the moderators here on the boards.
In any case, the system would use simple SQL Tables and a PHP interface to make keeping track of the statistics and records a matter of ease. If you guys are interested, I could design the whole thing and make a new post containing the necessary Tables and PHP code. I won't bother with that if no one is interested, however.
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Genius without education is like silver in the mine – Benjamin Franklin
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8:36 pm
June 4, 2009
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KaVir
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| Member | posts 25 | |
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Post edited 6:37 pm – June 4, 2009 by KaVir
You can only vote for a particular mud once per day. The main problem seems to be the people who also vote down the competition *while* they're voting up their favourite game.
So how about an additional restriction of one total vote per hour? That way people would have to intentionally come back once per hour for each mud they wanted to vote down, which they'd be unlikely to bother doing unless they had a real axe to grind.
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3:31 am
June 5, 2009
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Vladaar
| | VA, USA | |
| Member | posts 18 | |
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That is a really good idea Kavir. Not only does it keep the spirit of what was
intended by mudgamers being able to let opinion known of other muds, it
makes it difficult to just spam vote down all competition.
Vladaar
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9:13 am
June 5, 2009
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Gotrek
| | Australia | |
| Member | posts 50 | |
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Yes, people will still find ways around it but only being able to vote one MUD a day is going to eliminate the ease at which people can down vote other MUDs.
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2:02 pm
June 5, 2009
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KaVir
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| Member | posts 25 | |
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Here we go again – this one happened shortly before 13:00 GMT, and wasn't just targeting those above their mud but also all those below:
Legends of the Jedi (5 out of 5) -> lowered to 3 out of 5
The Builder Academy (4.5 out of 5) -> lowered to 4.11 out of 5
The 7th Plane (4.43 out of 5) -> lowered to 4 out of 5
4Dimensions (4.34 out of 5) -> raised to 4.35 out of 5
Ansalon MUD (4.33 out of 5) -> lowered to 3.86 out of 5
Threshold RPG (4.29 out of 5) -> lowered to 4.21 out of 5
6 Dragons (4.29 out of 5) -> lowered to 4.06 out of 5
God Wars II (4.27 out of 5) -> lowered to 4 out of 5
Lands of M’dhavian (4.2 out of 5) -> lowered to 3.91 out of 5
OtherSpace (4.2 out of 5) -> lowered to 3.67 out of 5
If they had to wait for an hour between votes, they'd have had to come back 10 times over a period of 10 hours to do that – and I doubt they'd bother. But it only takes a moment to vote down all the competition.
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